Ladies in Leadership

Transcript performed by A.I. Please excuse the typos.
00:00
This is Dental All-Stars, where we bring you the best in dentistry on marketing, management and training.

00:11
There’s the five levels of leadership that we talk about. And at the bottom, I have the title COO, right? So you’re supposed to listen to what I say. That’s only going to go so far. And then people will start to say, oh, well, she’s a micromanager. She’s just power hungry. She’s doing this or that. And she’s telling me what to do all the time. You have to build a relationship and then you have to show them that you can also do and provide and you know what it takes for them to be successful.

00:40
Then you start working your way up this ladder of leadership of level of influence to get to a point where people actually follow you based off of who you are, what you stand for. And that’s the ultimate goal is to help people move along in that way with regards to leadership. Welcome to Dental All-Stars. I’m Alex Nottingham, founder and CEO of All-Stars Dental Academy. With me is Shelley Van Epps, our COO, our chief operating officer.

01:08
And our topic today is ladies in leadership. Please welcome Shelly van Epps. Thank you for having me, Alex. I’m super excited about this topic. Yes, you are. So right off, right off the bat, we’ll try to get this podcast out as soon as possible because we have a leadership event we do every year Fort Lauderdale typically are somewhere sunny and nice. And we’re going to be doing that again. It’s in January.

01:35
And so, but one of the cool parts of leadership that we explore and that we will explore in more depth at this session is ladies in leadership or women in leadership, uh, gender leadership, because it is a thing. There’s a YouTube channel I like called elephants in the room. uh And it’s a similar concept that like, what’s the elephant in the room that nobody wants to be talking about. And it’s very interesting because we’re often.

02:04
afraid to, to, to approach this subject, but it’s so real that there is differences in gender still, uh, hundreds, thousands, millions of years. Right. And what I want to hear from you being a woman, uh, and being a coach and leader, um, you specialize a lot in leadership is kind of this issue of women and leadership, ladies in leadership. So tell me.

02:32
Paint me a bit of a background about what’s going on in leadership. What have you seen? What are the problems? And we can start to look at how do we get more comfortable with it and what solutions are. Yeah. Thank you for asking. It’s pretty fun because, and I shouldn’t say fun, funny, I guess. I don’t know what the right word is, but both genders have their challenges. I want to acknowledge that right up front. Men leading a group of women, that’s a challenge.

03:01
a woman leading a group of women, totally different challenge. So both have their challenges. So I want to be clear. I’m not to seclude that men have it easy because they absolutely don’t. uh Leadership takes a really strong balance between leading and managing. And you really need to have a piece of both to be successful or to have a continual outcome that’s successful and setting other people up for success. have to have the

03:30
the strategic side, the systems, the processes, the organization, the accountability that it takes on the management side, which tends to be a male characteristic. I say tends to be, I guess I have that male characteristic in me. So it’s, it’s not necessarily gender specific, but maybe personality to some extent, but by nature, most women have more of the nurturing side to them. And so that tends to be more the leadership.

03:58
you’re supporting, you’re building a relationship, you’re making sure to take care of other people. And so on one side, you’ve got people who are really nurturing, caring, loving. And on the other side, you’ve got what can be called the, the micromanager or do this, do that. You’re not achieving the KPIs, the, the standard that I have set within my practice. And so when you’re leaning too heavy one way or another, it’s going to have an imbalance. You’re either going to have a team of people who are

04:28
scared to make a mistake potentially or scared to take action, or you’re going to have a team of people who are completely comfortable and at times will walk all over you or you’ll feel as though you’re being walked all over. and I do want to be clear too, this is not just the doctor. shouldn’t say just the doctor, but it’s not only the owner, only the doctor. You may be delegating. This may be a male doctor listening right now. You have a potentially a female office manager who is

04:57
doing the exact same thing that we’re talking about. This is a female who tends to have the nurturing side overseeing your entire team of additional females. And they’re going through these same challenges of how do I balance? How do I not become too much of a friend, too much of a mentor, too much of that nurturing person?

05:19
Interesting. We’re narrowing in on the ladies as you call it and how they relate. And you’re right that men have their own uh issues, whether it’s with the opposite sex or with the same sex being male. That’s a whole nother uh situation. But I think that, and you raise a good point that the female, we’re talking about the leaders, the female leader, okay. uh

05:47
is it can be a dentist, could be office manager. there’s all, most office managers are female. Okay. We see some more men that are doing that, but as a whole, that’s the case. And it’s interesting. I want to hear your perspective as a female leader, because you run All-Star and I make sure that you know that and you remind you of that. And because you’re not drunk with power, you’re a great leader. You have wonderful balance. And I remember when

06:15
And you were an office manager in the past. And I remember when I first brought this subject up to you, you’re like, I don’t really see it as a big issue for me because you’re just so integrated as a person. know yourself, you don’t get offended by things you, you work, you work your way. It’s beautiful to see. I think as a precept that by working on your leadership and understanding people that this issue of gender becomes less now.

06:43
It’s not that you’re not, you’re not going to see men that are inappropriate and take advantage or other females or whatever. And people that just don’t get it or just idiots or whatever. Um, but you let that roll off your back and you move forward and doesn’t become, Oh, look what they did. That was, um, but you know, that’s why I asked you’re like, I don’t see it in me, but you do coach a lot of people and you see that they fall into certain traps or.

07:13
or situations that get there. And I like what you said earlier that women tend to be more nurturing. You tend to be more nurturing. And I think that some women think that’s a, and we know some of women that you coach and we work with in a mastermind, they think that may be a weakness, the nurturing. And I think, and now we’re getting like a defeminist philosophy. I’m just saying, the point is that nurturing being, that men can be nurturing.

07:41
But nurturing, yes, being identified typically as a female trait is a wonderful thing. And I think our society needs more of that. And what I hear you saying is lean in with some of your strengths, but don’t let nurturing move into being a pushover. They’re not the same thing. You can be firm and nurturing at the same time, but not pushover. So sometimes I think like, let’s not use.

08:07
our gender as an excuse, if you will. Right. It’s just like when you’re talking about your personality, it’s an explanation. It’s not an excuse. If I’m an extroverted person who loves connecting with people, I can’t use it as an excuse for why I am talking too much or whatever. have to know my, my surroundings. The EQ has to come into play. Know yourself, know others, pay attention to what’s going on around you. And EQ comes into your leadership.

08:37
whether you’re male, female, and, and understanding that the way that you act, the way that you hold people accountable, if I’m not holding one person accountable and somebody else is being held accountable, that’s going to reflect on me as a leader. And you can only be as strong of a leader as you are consistent with your systems and processes. You can’t just let your best friend that you happen to work with that you get along with better than somebody else on a personal relationship impact how you lead.

09:07
the rest of the team. And when they start to see that and friendships become too close, there is a challenge. And I’m not to say that I wasn’t friends with people in my office by any means. I have some of my best friends ever that I work with in my office, but I feel as though as long as you hold them accountable consistently across the board, that’s where your leadership, your respect is going to start to come into play from the team. And once you earn that respect,

09:36
then you’re going to have an easier, easier time with leadership, with managing and helping guide them towards the goal that you’re working to achieve as a team. are some issues that you see with the clients that you work with and people that you’re training on leadership, especially women, of course, what are, uh, what are some of the mine fields? What are some of the, what do you hear being a problem, whether it’s an office manager or whether it’s a dentist, what are they reporting?

10:05
their difficulty is with typically women because there’s more women in dental space and maybe even men if you’ve come across that. I would say the number one is holding them accountable. Ultimately having those crucial conversations when I ask when was the last time that you talked to that person about XYZ? They’re like, yeah, I haven’t really talked to them about it.

10:30
I’m like, well, how are you going to help them to be successful if they don’t even know what your expectation is to begin with, nor have you talked to them about corrective action. And usually they’re holding back because of fear or that approval addiction fear of upsetting somebody. Sometimes right now it’s fear that they’re going to leave, um, whatever it might be. There’s fear that’s, that’s holding and stepping in the way of these crucial conversations. And when I, and I,

10:59
I’m looking back to where was your foundation to begin with did they know what the expectation is and if you are Supplying the support to help them be successful. You shouldn’t need to be worried about it It’s when you don’t give them the expectation you don’t tell them what you’re even looking for and then you get upset behind the scenes That you’re not getting what you’re looking for. I Say if I hired you tomorrow Alex and I said you’re gonna answer our phones

11:28
There it is. And I said, all right, we’ll see you later. And you answer it. And you said, all star. And I’m going, you didn’t answer the phone right. How are you supposed to know what I want you to do that I want you to follow the great call process that I want you to first greed on build rapport, engage, ask, how are you supposed to know that that’s what I’m wanting you to do if I never give you any more direction?

11:53
And so that expectation of when do I know I’m successful has to be very thorough and very documented and communicated on a regular basis. And that communication is a piece of it that tends to falter again, regardless of the gender, but with women in particular out of fear of conflict, um, fear of holding them accountable and having that backlash or fear of being looked at as the

12:21
not nice word within the office who’s just power crazy power hungry, right? Right. Where the man can just say it and people look at them as an authoritarian, the father figure. I’ve actually heard that a lot in, in offices where the women will work out a fatherly challenge that they’ve had with the male doctor. Maybe they’re working out a motherly issue with the female leaders, but

12:50
They respect it. like when the dad says, this, kids act when the mom says it, they don’t always act. And so it’s a similar type scenario with the mom dad um concept, I think within the office. Well, I’m really proud of us, you know, talking about this because I always get a little, um, you know, just, just because of how media, um, and, you know, kind of portrays, like we, don’t go there.

13:20
And it’s so fascinating when we talk to our doctors and like it’s there, you know, you can say it’s not there but it’s there and and so how do we uh There’s a reality. I mean you’re going really deep and again, we’re not gonna unpack that here We can discuss that at the leadership retreat because it’s a safe place, you know, we can go into yeah, there’s there’s a there’s a natural uh father role and a nurture role

13:47
I mean, raising kids, typically they’ll orient to the feminine. was, you know, females are built differently than men science, I guess, you know, and like there’s things that go on. Um, and, and also our upbringing, right. Uh, being, uh, and so on. I think that also, this was another interesting point. Cause I want to stay like in our, in our shorter podcast, I want to say like on the surface of this, because this can go really deep. We can get to Freud and.

14:17
and psychology. mean, I’m like, no, no, I understand. But like this, no, I understand. This is a deep, sensitive topic that requires a care. And, and so I think that the, everybody has a different perspective of it. think it’s important to work out. We work that out in coaching. do the leadership retreat and even I recommend some doing therapeutic coaching or whatever, just to see. But here’s another thing as well. Dentists as a whole, male or female.

14:47
don’t like confrontation. My father’s a dentist, male dentist, father, uh, is he doesn’t like confrontation. Most don’t. And now you add that it’s a female doctor, which typically don’t like confrontation. And now they have that deal with the fact that, uh, you, you’re working with other women or men and there’s something, you know, uncomfortable there. Now you add, I feel that there’s kind of a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy a little bit in insecurity, cause you’re like,

15:16
I mean, you’re an eye personality. Uh, it’s just so fun to watch you because you see things like this, but it doesn’t affect you. Like at all star, have mostly women and it’s like, no big deal. You ran an office of women, no big deal. You work with men, women. doesn’t matter. funny thing. And as I was growing up, I tended to gravitate towards hanging around the guys, not eyes. Just, don’t know why I had a.

15:47
bigger group of male friends in high school growing up. There was less drama. think everybody can admit there was just less drama. mean, I have girls, I have boys, right? The boys just less drama. And so something in me just is in that, not that I’m a male obviously, but there’s something about just the way that I respond that I respond well in that way. Not that I

16:15
don’t get along with females, but I have a, a different, um, I don’t know how to describe it, but I, I just, I get along well with men, whereas some don’t and that’s going deep. that’s getting a lot. I see you actually get along well with both. And I think what it sounds like to me is because you had such many guy friends, you, you had, you have a good relationship with your dad. very close to your dad and he’s a tough guy, you know,

16:43
And, uh, well, he’s a guy, he’s a guy. tougher than my dad actually. With me. Yeah. With you. Oh, and, and, but, it’s funny how this is a case in point that everybody’s individualized. Like we can talk in generalities, but you had a different upbringing. And I think being comfortable with the opposite sex, um, being comfortable with that, you see both realms, you know, in psychology.

17:11
I think a mother is more mothers are most important. I think in general, but a mother with the, with a boy is very important and a, a father with a girl is very important because, um, they’re not getting that. We tend to be segregated anyway, just naturally you go with the girls, you go with the boys. So you don’t, they’re different cultures and, and there’s certainly biological stuff, but there’s also culture in the United States or in Europe or the world. Like there’s cultures that kind of.

17:41
This is how we, we dress. This is how we do things. This is, this is how we talk and so on. And so I think having the unique background and again, coming back to the beginning premise is that you continue to work on yourself. believe that all of this type of issues, I mean, this is a charge issue. You can transcend it with awareness, with working on yourself, right? Because a lot of the dentists that we’re seeing

18:10
It’s a confrontational issue. don’t want to do confrontation. And then they have an issue with their women in the office. Let’s say it’s a female office manager or female doctor that they’re like either they’re too friendly with them. Okay. want buddy buddy. Right. Or they totally say, I’m going to do it the male way. I’m not your friend. I’m going your dad. And we’re not going to have any nurturing here. And there’s this wall.

18:39
Right? it’s like, would you say that you see it as extremes? Exactly. And that’s where I say you have to mesh the two, whether, no, I don’t care what gender you, you have to mesh the two. If you’re going to be able to both give, um, firm expectations and help nurture and bring people along and lead them. There’s, there’s the five levels of leadership that we talk about. Um, and at the bottom is your title.

19:07
You’re you have the title. I have the title coo, right? So you’re supposed to listen to what I say That’s only going to go so far And then people will start to say oh, well, she’s a micromanager. She’s just power hungry She’s doing this or that and she’s telling me what to do all the time You have to build a relationship and then you have to show them that you can also do and provide and you know what it takes for them to be successful

19:35
then you start working your way up this ladder of leadership, of level of influence, to get to a point where people actually just genuinely follow you based off of who you are, what you stand for. And that’s the ultimate goal, is to help people move along in that way with regards to leadership. And so when we’re working on that, we think about where are you with this person that you’re struggling with? Are you at the bottom?

20:04
Are you only being looked at as their leader because you are the dentist, because you are the office manager, or have you done the work and worked your way up that ladder to start to be able to persuade them in a way of influence based off of being at that pinnacle leader type scenario? everybody climbs that ladder a little bit differently and each relationship has to be nurtured a little bit differently, but you have to have a goal in mind and they have to know

20:33
what that goal is. And the communication is the only way to get there. You have to have conversations. You have to have meetings. You have to sit down. You have to help them. You have to show them that you care that they’re successful. That’s you’re going to get successful or six president of coaching will often say you’re only as effective as you can communicate a hundred percent. And part of it is that recognize. And that’s why I think the point of this podcast, the point of

21:02
the leadership retreat, where we go more depth about gender and leadership is that it’s there. There’s something there about it for some more than others, but there’s a phenomenon. Okay. And it’s not, didn’t just happen. It’s been here for thousands of years. And so we can deny it or we can work with it. But that said, I think you start to transcend these things when you say how this is the situation. This is the culture. This is who I’m talking to.

21:31
Right. You’re an I person who use disc a lot, but there’s other, also do Drake and other personality profiles, but I’d also understand that individual and, how that they receive information. How did they, uh, if you’re using disc is I, have to give them a lot of, um, uh, love and support and, and, and, and friendliness, right? If it’s a C you need detail, show me the numbers. Everybody’s different. And even beyond personality type, if you get to know them as human being,

22:01
Your is what we teach in the, the online program about rapport is get to know them. And then you adapt your, because there’s a lot of people say, give me a script of how I answer a phone call. Okay. We can give you verbiage, but you have to adapt to the person. Right. I mean, and that’s critical. And the same thing as a leader. This is your flock. Look, lady leaders, LL, lady leaders. I this is your flock. This is your tribe and.

22:30
You know, I think what we’re saying is lean into who you are. you have feminine, nitty and you value that use it, use nurturing, but as a whole adapt to the person you’re dealing with, right? To, and to their culture. So Larry Gazardo, our head instructor teaches about gender leadership, uh, that women tend to look for more, um, the sameness that we’re all in the same place, right? Symmetry and, and men like more hierarchy.

22:58
And not always some women are fine with that. But if your team, if you’re a woman leader, woman leader, and your team doesn’t like the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, don’t force it. You still can get what it’s done. Like you said before that level five is you’re the doctor. Fine. But you know, do they respect you for who you are and how you lead them? And when you show kindness to someone, so I think kindness is

23:26
maybe you consider that a feminine trait, I think that’s, that’s a trait that everybody should have. If she’ll kindness to someone and respect to someone, um, they’ll reciprocate. if they don’t reciprocate to kindness and nurturing and respect, you have a bad person in your practice and you probably don’t want them there. Yeah, it is important. I think that that goes into the EQ part, knowing who, who you are, acknowledging who’s around you.

23:55
But beyond that, just knowing your core values, making sure that your team knows your core values. Who are you? What are you stand for? Where are you taking this practice? can, they’ll, they’ll earn, you’ll earn respect by being clear and concise to your team. don’t care who you are. That’s something that we need to know. I know that all-star stands for integrity. We are, that’s the foundation principle, right? We do everything. We train with integrity. We hire with integrity.

24:25
And that’s a driving, one of the driving factors, one of the driving principles. It’s a core value. And if you all of a sudden were doing something that was not with integrity, would think, Alex, what’s going on? We can have a conversation about it and say, Hey, what’s, what’s happening? I’m seeing that you’re doing, I don’t even know. can’t even imagine you doing something that’s not with integrity, but if you were, it should be very easy for me.

24:50
to come to you and have a conversation about it because we both know that that’s what this company stands for. And in your practice, it should be no different. If you stand behind quality care and an assistant is making a temporary that is sloppy as all get out, and they know quality care is one of your foundation principles or your core values, you should be able to go to them and say, hey, I’m concerned. I’m concerned about this temporary that I just took off. Let’s work through that together.

25:20
And that should be respected from a standpoint of, they’re trying to help me to be successful. Yeah. Integrity actually, that word means to em be whole in the sense that and true to what you stand for. So you could actually have a negative integrity, but you’re being true to what you stand for. Well, you’re not negative in your. Well, what I’m saying is we have certain values of all. Well, what saying is we have certain values at All-Star.

25:50
Right. And there are times you’re like, Alex, like, I get what you’re saying, but we need to do it this way per what you promised, per what we discussed. That’s integrity, right? Is your being true to what you stand for uh and so on. so that’s a great example. I like it. Good. Yeah. Training with integrity. But I want the listeners to know that we know Shelley will hold me accountable and remind me in a loving way that uh

26:19
You you said this and this is why you said this. And then remember where it came from. It came from a bigger purpose. Part of also being a great leader is not making about you. Make it about something bigger than you. Make it about what you stand for as a company. And that is what guides everybody. you start getting in this, this cycle when it’s, uh, it’s about

26:45
you know, the doctor and the office manager or the team member or the gender of this. And it starts to muddy the waters versus what’s in the best interest of the company and what we’re trying to do. And if we stay on that, guides us. and let me ask you this, Shelley. So as we talk about it, it’s like tough to talk about this because we always keep coming back to kind of work on yourself. Like, yes, it’s there. Yes, it’s there. And you see it. So what

27:14
Kind of as we’re kind of wrapping up this podcast, mean, I think we’re dancing around the issue a little bit for sure, because again, this, there’s so many ways we can go and take ladies in leadership. That’s why we do, we talk about this at our leadership event. We also talk about this at the mastermind or mastermind group. When it comes up, it’s got to be a safe place. Everybody has a certain, uh, orientation of how they understand this, how they interact and everybody’s

27:43
perception is legitimate. That’s their world. And we’re here at All-Star to honor them, nurture them, and to work with that. But in general, for our listeners, ladies in leadership, what can a female doctor, female office manager, female team member in leadership, in that role, what are some action steps? What could they do to be more effective?

28:10
as a lady in leadership? What are some recommendations do you have for them? Great question. I always go back to the foundation. Number one. And, you know, it’s funny because I’ve worked with a lot of offices and I actually have the pleasure of working with a lot of lady dentists and a good handful of them have inherited say their dad’s practice. Dad was the leader.

28:35
Now here they are and the team may be the same. may have some new faces, but ultimately they’re thinking, Oh, well, he is the one who was leading this ship. Now this new younger female doctor has to come in. The daughter has to come in and build up that respect so that they start listening to this doctor. So when I’m talking with them and I’m an anybody, whether it’s because dad was the dentist or not, you have to start with.

29:03
Who are you, what do you stand for, number one. You have to make sure that the team knows that about you, and then you have to stay consistent to it. Consistent to it meaning talking with your team about it on a regular basis, consistent with it, holding team members accountable to what you said is important for your practice and not wavering from it. People want structure. they say they want it or not,

29:31
When you’re in a work environment, we want structure and we want accountability. I want some accountability in, and that means accountability for myself as well. If I’m not doing something properly. So you have to have the hard conversation. So scheduling one-on-one time with each team member on a regular basis. I’m not talking at the annual review. I’m talking on a regular basis, weekly, monthly, just check in. Doesn’t have to be long, but constant.

30:01
connection, know your team, know who’s on your team, know their personality traits, know their strengths, know their appreciation languages, just taking those few different things and knowing, okay, Shelly is a touch person. She likes high fives. When I walk by, I’m going to give her a high five. That’s going to boost her up. She’s going to feel appreciated and she’s going to go that much harder for what she’s working towards. She’s my assistant. She’s going to make sure if I tell her this room was set up,

30:29
perfect, nice job. Next time, I’m gonna be like craving that high five again. So I’m gonna work really hard. Whereas if I don’t want you to touch me, don’t give me a high five. I’m gonna be like, okay, woman, don’t touch me, right? So you have to know your team and that’s where you were mentioning about personalities and adapting. But it takes time, it takes energy. And that’s where I feel like a lot of times that

30:58
It falters because it does take time and it takes energy. And we talk about this as well as you’re already the visionary. If you’re the, you’re the owner, you’re the visionary, you’re a tactician, meaning you’re the one doing the dentistry. Now you have to manage people. have to make sure that the wheels keep moving in motion and it’s exhausting. And so one thing that ends up faltering tends to be these one-on-one conversations, holding people accountable. But as soon as those things start slipping,

31:27
So does all the wheels start falling off the bus. And that’s when I have offices that are really struggling with the leadership. So that’s my suggestion. Accountability, foundation, communication. It’s that simple. It’s that simple. That’s simple. It is simple. until- Until you have to do it. We forget. And you have to do it. And, that I think is why, I mean, coaching, what I say about

31:55
What we teach at All-Star shouldn’t be a surprise. We look for the best of the best out there and it’s more part of coaching. That’s why I have a personal trainer and an nutritionist because yeah, I understand what to do, but just that accountability and support. Like you can do it. Like, Hey, I need to talk this through. Like it gets hairy and messy in these situations. And so I think that’s what it’s all about is having the simplicity, then the support.

32:25
Same thing with investing. Like I get it, it’s simple, but how do I stay the course? That’s all life is, is staying the course on something important to you. Well, your approach on those crucial conversations can make or break whether or not that becomes successful as well. You have to hold somebody accountable. Your approach, if you just come in and lay the hammer, it’s not going to go very far. just leadership in general. So I want to give you some resources.

32:51
That we can point to it all star, of course the podcast and we’ve done other sessions on leadership We have a leadership retreat we do every January In a nice location. You can go to all start dental Academy comm click on events and see the leadership We’re pretty much sold out depending on when this podcast drops whether you can get a seat I recommend it like again We’re gonna have a special panel and process on gender and leadership ladies and leadership There’s also our May event

33:19
We’re to do in Fort Lauderdale also our growth summit and leadership. talk about leadership every time. We also have our, we do have our little breakouts and we have groups that are still focusing on this issue. And so that there’s some more support there. Our mastermind group is also in coaching for sure is also a great place because we pair you with a coach that specializes in leadership.

33:46
We also in our mastermind group do leadership and we have a, if you’re a female listening in leadership, we have a group that are very supportive on this. have their own little clique and we also have for the men as well. And then all together we come together and support in just becoming better people, better leaders. And I think that we have had to develop and we chose to develop oh these opportunities for our membership, our followers, because it’s needed.

34:15
Right. And so that’s what we do. We just create as things are needed. We support everybody, uh, with respect to that. And so you’re on your own journey and I hope you take a lot of these ideas into play and start again. just started in terms of the surface and take advantage to some of the opportunities, additional training to be able to further your journey and just become a better, as you become a better person, a more, um, a more caring person, uh, uh, more, a better listener.

34:43
and better with people, better leader. It solves a lot of problems. So thank you, Shelley, for helping us take us through ladies and leadership. Just scratching that surface. oh yes. Thank you. Remember to follow us on Apple podcast, Spotify and YouTube. Get the episodes as they are released, share with your friends. And until next time, go out there and be an All-Star.

35:12
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Dental All-Stars. Visit us online at AllStarDentalAcademy.com.